Lactation expert Laura Harper joins Jen and Dan on this episode to talk about how to manage breast feeding, pumping and a return to work. Plus, Jen tells us if it's possible to hold a baby too much.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Moms Circle Podcast, presented by Floyd Medical Center, a place for new moms, veteran moms, and moms to be, to hear expert advice from experienced healthcare professionals. Here are your hosts; Dan Bevels and Jen Carroll.
Dan Bevels (00:17):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to our Moms Circle Podcast. I'm Dan Bevels, and I'm glad to be with you again, and excited about today because I feel like I learn something every time I join Jen Carroll. She is just a wealth of information, and each guest that we have on, each month, is as well. And this one will be no different. And we're going to jump into that in just a moment, but Jen, first, I just want to welcome you back and hope you're doing well, and we're excited for another episode.
Jen Carroll (00:44):
I'm excited too, Dan. It's really great to have this opportunity to share evidence-based information with our moms. We just really want to be a place that moms can trust to get the information they need to provide that great care for their babies.
Dan Bevels (01:01):
I absolutely agree. And I think this is just a wonderful resource for them. And speaking of resources, another great one that's out there is our Moms Circle at Floyd Facebook group. So, we encourage you, if you haven't already, to join that Facebook group, because, just as I said, it's a great resource for information, but even more than that, it's become a support group. So, you can connect with other moms that may be experiencing the same types of things that you are, and really support one another, encourage one another, and have some questions answered, possibly. I know that Jen and many of our experts here at Floyd spend a lot of time in that group answering questions as well.
Dan Bevels (01:40):
So, if you haven't already, that's Moms Circle at Floyd on Facebook. We encourage you to join that group. And then also, we want to be a resource for you here, so if you have questions about a topic that's been on the podcast, if you have a suggestion for an upcoming podcast, or if you just have a general question, maybe not even related to one of our topics, we encourage you to email us at momscircle@floyd.org. And as a matter of fact, Jen, before we get started on the topic, I'll throw one out there for you; a question that we have, "Can you hold a baby too much? Is that possible?"
Jen Carroll (02:15):
This is a really common question, Dan, and it's based on some folklore, actually, that used to say that if you held a baby too much, that you would spoil the baby and that baby would just want to be held all the time. Well, I'm here to give you the facts on that, and the facts are, through scientific research, we have learned that actually, it is impossible to spoil a newborn baby. When babies are born, they have been inside mom and they have been held for nine months of development. So, actually, the transition from within mom to our big outside spacious world is quite a significant transition. And neurologically, our newborns are not fully mature yet. Our babies can't get up and walk and they don't talk, and there's a lot of things they can't do, so they're still neurologically developing.
Jen Carroll (03:20):
And what research shows us is that, actually, babies who are responded to within 90 seconds of voicing, usually through crying, fussing, trying to get attention, and are responded to and held, cry less later than babies who are just left and not responded to. One of the reasons for that is that babies, very early, learn that their needs are met or that their needs are not going to be met so that they will press longer, cry harder, and be unhappy. So it's really important for moms and dads to know that these new babies in these first months of life cannot be spoiled. You just enjoy them, hold them as much as you want. The developmental time for them to learn that it's safe to be away from mom will happen as they grow, and then you'll get the opportunity to parent them and teach them for years to come. But when they're infants, be comfortable holding and nurturing your baby.
Dan Bevels (04:38):
That's great advice, Jen. And if I could just add, again, dads, this is a great opportunity for you to bond with that baby as well, and also to give mom a break because we know that, particularly, in those first few months in the first year, moms are working so hard around the clock to care for that baby very often, and she needs a break. And also, it creates this great bonding time for us as dads as well, and provides that connection. So, Jen, if I could offer that, I just think it's a great chance for a dad to step in.
Jen Carroll (05:11):
Thank you, Dan. Absolutely. And I so appreciate that. Oh my goodness, yes. Again, we always promote the teamwork of mom and partner. Babies need that male influence of holding that baby. They respond differently to a male than they do to the female, because, men's hands are bigger and the way they handle babies is differently. It's a good thing. That's a good thing, moms. So, let's encourage that. And Dan, thank you so much for bringing that to our attention.
Dan Bevels (05:40):
Well, certainly. And I just know how important that was in my own life when our girls were smaller. It was just a wonderful opportunity for me to connect as a dad. So, I can't encourage it enough. It's great for the baby and it's great for you as a dad as well. Jen, let's jump into our topic for today. I know we have another Floyd expert on the line with us. I'll let you introduce Laura and jump right in.
Jen Carroll (06:04):
Yes. We have the famous Laura Harper with us today. Many of you moms are familiar with Laura because you met her while you were in hospital. Laura is one of our lactation consultants. Laura is an RN and has her bachelor of science in nursing, as well as being a board-certified lactation consultant. Laura has had the joy of raising two boys, her and her hubby, and she has a special dog in her life named Bell. So, we are delighted to have Laura. We are so thankful for her, and she's such a vital part of our team here at Floyd. Today, Laura is going to be jumping into the topic of pumping or expressing milk for a breastfeeding mom. And there's so much information out there, and Laura's going to help us make sense of all of it today. So, Laura, welcome.
Laura Harper (07:14):
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Jen Carroll (07:16):
Let's just jump right in here and let's talk about; mom's had the baby and she's coming home from the hospital. Those first three weeks at home. What are we looking at in those first three weeks?
Laura Harper (07:32):
While becoming a new mother for most of us and for most new moms is quite a huge life change, people are getting used to their baby, they're learning to breastfeed, they're oftentimes, learning to sleep when that baby sleeps, and just get into a whole new routine in a whole new shift of managing a new baby. For many, many women, that time home is also spent worrying about going back to work. Probably one of the most common questions I hear from new mothers, to the extent that we talk about how breastfeeding looks different to many people, it can be direct breastfeeding, it can be pumping. So, we just encourage moms to really take some time at home those first several weeks and just try to recover from birth and get to know their baby and learn to breastfeed, knowing that we are going to help you navigate pumping when it's time to start pumping.
Jen Carroll (08:43):
Okay. So, Laura, I hear this as well, especially in our breastfeeding classes, mothers who know that they have to return to work, have this anxiety about it, and they will even ask me, "Should I start pumping before I deliver?"
Laura Harper (09:04):
So, that actually is a trend that we see of moms who... You make colostrum during your pregnancy. So, many women, and a lot of information on social media, which actually has some evidence behind it in terms of research, to pump a little bit before you deliver your baby. But that's not the kind of pumping that we would do to start saving milk for return to work. That would be more maybe expressing a little bit of colostrum and saving that in syringes and bringing those to the hospital. But we actually could help do a whole 'nother podcast on that, on your colostrum during your pregnancy.
Jen Carroll (09:46):
Okay. So, these moms who are worried about returning to work, that is a separate thing. They don't need to be pumping before they even go into labor and stuff like that, to make a stash before they even deliver.
Laura Harper (10:01):
No. In fact, pumping before a delivery could actually cause early labor, which we want to avoid, unless you know you're going to have a high-risk or a preterm delivery and you are leaking a lot of colostrum. And some women will actually collect some of that colostrum just by some gentle hand expression, so that they have that colostrum before the pregnancy, before the birth.
Jen Carroll (10:26):
Okay. So, what I'm hearing you say, that is, in the first three weeks, you're not saying, "Hey, get those pumps out as soon as you get home and start pumping." You're saying, "Enjoy your baby. Enjoy being a mom."
Laura Harper (10:40):
Yes. In fact, oftentimes, those first several weeks at home are filled with sleepless nights and sore nipples and a new milk supply and learning still how to breastfeed. Oftentimes, it really is about 6 to 12 weeks before we can become a hundred percent comfortable breastfeeding our new baby and learning those new... just how to read our baby. So, you've all heard, because we see it on social media, of a super pumping mama, and I just really encourage mamas not to be that super pumping mama because that, in and of itself, not only does it take you away from that precious time with your baby if you're pumping and nursing and pumping and nursing, but it can also create a lot of other risks, believe it or not. It sounds like it's a great thing to have a big supply, but you can create a lot of discomfort and risk, like engorgement and mastitis.
Laura Harper (11:54):
If you are a super pumping mama, we will talk to you about that and we'll get you so that you are not stressed out about how much milk you need to pump. But that was just one thing I would encourage; is when you're home with your baby, really spend some time resting and taking a walk and having some time with your family, enjoying your time at home, try not to stress about pumping and returning to work. That's what we're here for. We're going to help you navigate all of that.
Jen Carroll (12:28):
Okay. So, let's say you're at three weeks... And again, I want to affirm about this super pumper. I mean, I have seen people post online where they have a whole freezer full of milk and it's like, "Oh my goodness, how in the world did she have time to do all that? Who's been holding the baby for the last three weeks?" So, you're missing out on those precious and never to return, first days of your baby's life, so, just enjoy them. But let's say you're further along, and you're now seeing that date that you're going to have to put your baby with a caregiver and began to prepare for that, how do you get ready to pump? How do you get ready to start this process?
Laura Harper (13:24):
Okay. And that's a great question. And if you're listening to this podcast, I want to say, "Great job, mama because you're planning ahead." So many others, before we even give birth, we have our double electric pumps that we received through insurance, and that we are thinking about using, and we're going to look at that date on the calendar. For many moms, it's around 12 weeks that they return to work. Now, for others, it might be sooner. So, I encourage you to look at your calendar, come to terms with that date. For example, if you're going back to work at nine weeks, you can actually not start pumping until about three weeks before you go back to work at nine weeks.
Laura Harper (14:18):
So, the three-week mark doesn't necessarily mean you have to start pumping at three weeks, but three weeks is an average time when mamas may start to pump. But if you're going back to work at nine weeks, honestly, I'm going to tell you how you can have enough milk in a good schedule before you go back to work; by just starting to pump three weeks before your return to work date.
Jen Carroll (14:43):
Okay. So, there is a plan. And also, this is something that you do here in the office, in the clinic; you have moms come in, they know they're going to be returning to work, and you're ready for them to come and meet with you, look at the schedule, and help them plan this out, so it's no stress for anybody, the baby, the mommy, that they have it all organized, right?
Laura Harper (15:10):
Yes. We are here to help everyone along the way. And Jenna, this is such a good thing to bring up because a lot of people, in that first couple of weeks, they do come to see us. And I just want to speak; if you're having any issues with breastfeeding early on, come get those worked out first. Let's meet, let's get together, let's work. So many things with breastfeeding just require a little support and a little tweaking to fix the sore nipples or just all of the engorgement or just questions. Come see us and get all those [inaudible 00:15:49] worked out, get comfortable, and then when you are getting ready to go back to work, you are in a good spot.
Jen Carroll (15:56):
Okay. So, we're going to plan ahead and be able to store milk or get into a system where mom can express milk and then have an adequate supply to leave with the caregiver when she has to be away from her baby.
Laura Harper (16:13):
Right. So, there's a couple of things that if a mom is asking me, "Hey, I'm going to come back to work, and I am really stressed about this, and I want to know what I need to do, when do I need to start pumping?" So, to give you a little scenario, which is going to just be a guideline, because, everybody, as we know, may have a little bit different situation. Look at your work schedule... And I might just add right now; many very determined moms may go talk to their employer and say, "Hey, can I come back midweek? Can I come back at the end of the week? May I come back part-time even, or just slowly work back up?" Those are things to think about.
Laura Harper (16:54):
Even taking a little bit more time off than you anticipated, to begin with, only because you've got to recover from birth and sort of learn your baby. But again, those are only guidelines, for some women, that is not an option and we have to get back to work. And so, for example, if we're going to go back to work at nine weeks, you're going to come see me, I would say, "Let's go back and let's just count back and say, 'from three weeks from when you're going to go back to work, if you pump once a day and save about two ounces of milk, by the time you go back to work, you are going to have about 24 to 30 ounces of milk in your fridge or your freezer'" And 24 to 30 ounces of milk is how much a baby needs in about a 24-hour period to grow and thrive from the time they're one month old till the time that they are six months old.
Laura Harper (17:53):
And again, that's 24 hours, so that's not going to be how much milk your baby even needs during the day, but it's a good place to start. It's a good goal to have, and when you spill it out like that, where you're like, "Okay, this is doable. I can pump once a day," oftentimes, in the morning, mamas will see that that's when they have a lot of extra milk in general. When we wake up, it's morning, it's the time of day that most of us make a lot of milk. And you may find that, after your morning feeding, when it's time for you to start pumping, and you're ready to do that, and you've gotten your pump all set up, you breastfeed, make sure your baby gets a good feeding and that he's satisfied and done. And then you sit down, rest, get something to drink, take about 15 to 30 minutes to rest, and then you're going to do your first pumping session.
Laura Harper (18:55):
Now, remember, you've already nursed your baby, and therefore, you are probably not going to pump a lot of milk initially, and that is absolutely okay. So, say you pump one ounce of milk and then you put it away, you might find, "Okay, the next day when I pump, I may pump a little bit more milk." And the next day, you might find that you pump a little more milk if you're pumping in that same time every day. You may also decide, "Oh my goodness, I pumped two or three ounces after I nurse my baby in the morning." And then you'd be very happy. And just go ahead and put that milk away. I recommend that you do that in about two or three-ounce increments in freezer bags, and you are on your way to collecting the amount of milk that you're going to need.
Jen Carroll (19:44):
But this is so helpful, Laura, because many people just feel overwhelmed with the concept of having to pump or express milk, and you've broken it down, so it very reasonable, and it's something that is not going to be so dramatic for the mom and also not dramatic for the baby. So, it's a really great system. I love how you've explained that. Now, there is a question that I have, that many moms will ask, and that is, is there something I can eat or drink to increase my milk supply when I start pumping?
Laura Harper (20:28):
Yes, there are. Getting rest and making sure that you are drinking enough water or just any beverage, it doesn't have to be water. Just make sure you're hydrated. When you're a nursing mother, you should try to eat an additional 500 calories per day and a really good nutritional vitamin can also help. And honestly, nursing on cue in those first three to six weeks is the most important thing to do to make a lot of milk. There are foods and herbs that have been shown to increase in already existing milk supply, and that would be something that you could talk to your lactation consultant about.
Laura Harper (21:14):
But the most important thing is, honestly, knowing that you don't have to be that super pumping mama, you don't have to pump four and five and six ounces every time. Most babies will drink between three to five ounces when they are taking milk from a bottle. And we'll talk about paced bottle feeding, and talking to your childcare provider, at another time, that is so important to talk about; babies and bottles and really getting set up with your childcare provider on another podcast, but just knowing that taking good care of yourself and nursing your baby early and often is really the most important thing to do.
Jen Carroll (21:58):
Wow. Well, I just so appreciate you taking this topic, which is often daunting to moms, and bringing it down to a very practical step-by-step doable bite that we can take out of the big job of being a mom and making sure that everything is still going smoothly as we plan to return to work. So, Laura, this is so helpful, and I appreciate you joining us today and giving us these guidelines and tips for being successful with pumping when we know we're having to return to work.
Laura Harper (22:43):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it very much. And we are here for you, mamas, come see us.
Jen Carroll (22:49):
I just can't tell you moms how much I appreciate our lactation team. They do a great job, not only in the hospital, but following up and being available for moms whenever you have a need. So, be sure to reach out and get the support that you need from these amazing ladies. Thanks again, Laura.
Laura Harper (23:13):
Thank you so much, Jen, and we love you and we appreciate you.
Dan Bevels (23:16):
Laura, Jen mentioned just encouraging folks to reach out. How could someone get in touch with you if they have questions about this topic or others.
Laura Harper (23:24):
Thank you. That is such a great question. So, Monday through Friday, you can call Floyd Lactation and Childbirth. We have a really great office and a wonderful manager named Jennifer Talley, and her number is (706) 509-6538. And after hours, we have a little question hotline, and that is, (706) 509-6555. Coming to see us is considered preventative care, which means there's no cost to the patient, and we are here to support you all the way through your first year of your new baby and beyond, honestly.
Dan Bevels (24:05):
Great information, Laura, thanks so much for joining us.
Laura Harper (24:08):
Thank you for having me.
Dan Bevels (24:09):
Absolutely. Jen, another fantastic episode, and I know we're going to have Laura on again soon to cover other topics that will be enlightening. So, we look forward to that. And again, just want to encourage folks, if you have questions about this topic or others, you could reach out to Laura. You can also email us here at momscircle@floyd.org, and we'll respond to those, and we may even ask your a question as part of the podcast as well. So, we encourage you to do that. Jen, thanks so much again, we look forward to talking to you again on the next episode.
Jen Carroll (24:40):
Okay, Dan, looking forward to it.
Dan Bevels (24:42):
And thank you all for joining us. And until we talk to you again, be safe, and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Thanks for joining us on the Moms Circle Podcast. Be sure to join our Moms Circle Facebook group for more conversation between Floyd's experts and moms like you. And if you have any questions about today's podcast or would like to suggest a topic for an upcoming episode, email us at momscircle@floyd.org. Also, if you haven't already, be sure to download the My Floyd Baby app for a personalized health newsfeed for every member of your family. You can find the app at floyd.org/baby or in your app store. Thanks for joining us.